Back to top

worries for our community changes

47 posts / 0 yeni cevap
Son gönderi
WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
worries for our community changes

I dont understand why WS is going to a commercial huge 3 day bike meeting in Las Vegas (1500 dollar entree) what on earth are we going to do there.

and would like to say that handing out free stuff such as a bike from the WS board is not appropriate and does not fit the spirit at all: the meeting of the cyclist and the host itself and whatever happend there is more than enough . Also i cannot imagine a lot of enthousiasm of members to order WS cloths

and can we please take out the cycling tourist and make him/her a cycling traveller again

i really dont get the point of a booking system, we are very frequent guest and host and think it fits the commercial hosting but not at all the WS

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Correction

Just to clarify, the cost of attending Interbike will be approximately $300 (total, all expenses), not $1,500 as you incorrectly have stated.  

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Attending Interbike

 

Sorry i got it wrong but i still fail to understand why the community needs to be represented at the commercial Interbike event. Thanks in advance for the answer

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Let's not make Warmshowers a brand

I have to agree on this. The greatest thing about Warmshowers has always been its non-commercial status. Warmshowers is a community, not a brand. Why are we selling clothes? Why do we have to involve money in any of this? I have donated happily, to keep the site running and support the amazing people behind it, but I don't believe in trying to "upgrade" Warmshowers in the way that capitalism tells us is an upgrade, that is, by expansion, branding and renewing. I am also worried.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Let's not make Warmshowers a brand

I agree completely. If this does not change and we can go back to the excellent community it once was, and very soon, I will not be a warm showers member in the near future.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Clothing

I have to say that I am all for the merchandising and am really trying to push this forward.

Warmshowers is growing rapidly, but not in the US.  I review daily membership, and about 7% of new members come from the US.  The percentage of funding for WS that comes from the US is huge.  We need growth in the US to support the infrastructure of the organization (as well as come up with strategies for fundraising in the rest of the world).  

I am completely against WS adventising to get members.  I think it needs to grow from attraction.  We need to grow this community from the cycling community to keep the focus in tact.  It is just as important to have representation at Interbike as it is to sport representation in the form of a jersey when on the road.  My jerseys always spark conversation when I am on tour.  Why not make the conversation about Warmshowers?

I have been a volunteer with this organization for over 4 years.  I have never made a dime from this.  Despite my time spent volunteering daily, I still make donations.  From the inside, I see what it takes to keep this organization afloat.  I see the costs.  And I have seen the crucial state we were in July 2016.  After needed expenditures, upgrades, and admin changes, we are back on solid ground and moving forward.

And let's remember this is all about reciprocol hospitality for touring cyclists and those who support them.  Let's enjoy the shared journeys!

Ken Francis

WS Board

 

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Why does eveyone hate change?

Why does eveyone hate change?

Been a member for over 9 years, great to see it grow, improve, evolve and change.

Keep up the great work, keep it moving forward.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
This is not about hating

This is not about hating change.

This is about Warmshowers not becoming a commercial venture.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Sounds like whiners whinging

I guess that depends on your viewpoint.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
change

I don't know if it's coincidence but...

I've been a WS members for over 12 years. Living in Istanbul, I used to have about 20 requests for hospitality per year, and host about 5-10 times. It was fun. 

The last two years, I've had only 2-3. It could be the war in Syria, or it might be my cooking. It might also be that Istanbul had about 15 hosts in 2007 and now it has 250. 

Warmshowers should stop doing things which target larget cities. Members in small towns and villages are far more valuable. Don't actively try to get rid of people of course - just don't do anything to encourage new members. The community is big enough. 

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
How effective are the changes ?

We seem to have had an explosion in Membership over last couple of years ( maybe doubled ?)

is there any evidence this has led to more " Stays" ?

More Requests ? ( assuming that's a good thing..)

a "better" Request / Stay ratio ?

I think it's undeniable that the changes have caused
1. some anxiety, particularly among "veteran' members AND
2. quite a few bogus / lapsed/ useless memberships

Apart from " more members" , are there any performance Indicators that justify the "new look" WS..?

[ That is, apart from asserting that the old model was in some danger of collapse, as seems to be the principal justification

...]

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Fewer requests due to more hosts

Hey Kathy

We too have noticed similar on bothe hosts and guests.

Have lost count of the amount of times we've asked to stay somewhere only to never hear. 

Now we're on tour, we don't even try to contact a host because most rarely reply. Its become easier to camp out. Maybe the guests coming to Instanbul are tired of getting no response to their requests. Many hosts seem to have joined on a spur of the moment to get another profile out there.

We live in a small town and have also noticed less people????? We answer everyone within a few days

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Fewer requests due to more hosts

Hey Kathy

We too have noticed similar on bothe hosts and guests.

Have lost count of the amount of times we've asked to stay somewhere only to never hear. 

Now we're on tour, we don't even try to contact a host because most rarely reply. Its become easier to camp out. Maybe the guests coming to Instanbul are tired of getting no response to their requests. Many hosts seem to have joined on a spur of the moment to get another profile out there.

We live in a small town and have also noticed less people????? We answer everyone within a few days

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Fewer requests due to more hosts

Hey Kathy

We too have noticed similar on bothe hosts and guests.

Have lost count of the amount of times we've asked to stay somewhere only to never hear. 

Now we're on tour, we don't even try to contact a host because most rarely reply. Its become easier to camp out. Maybe the guests coming to Instanbul are tired of getting no response to their requests. Many hosts seem to have joined on a spur of the moment to get another profile out there.

We live in a small town and have also noticed less people????? We answer everyone within a few days

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Just to add that I also view commercialization as a negative, no

Just to add that I also view commercialization as a negative, not a positive.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Concurence

Dear, i agree with you. In short, we are going corporate and these hidden tension are usually intrepreted as toxicity even when it is not. you are on point on all 3 issue.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Stopped hosting.

CouchSurfing is a business since 2011 and WarmShowers decided to follow the (bad) example.

Today warmshowers.com(mercial) is redirecting to warmshowers.org(anisation) but it should be the other way around.

We had registered for a Free and Open Source Software.

I will not support this scam, so that ws.com makes profit out of my hospitality. I refuse to host until the code is available on GitHub again.

Meanwhile, I urge every host to stop hosting and the travelers (who are not tourists) to try other FOSS websites.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Not for profit

Warmshowers.org is a nonprofit entity run by a volunteer Board of Directors.  It is in no way patterned after Couchsurfing.  As a Board Member, I can say that we never discuss, mention, or try to model WS after Couchsurfing or any other hospex for that matter.  Warmshowers is unique.  The only profits made are the gains made from the memorable encounters and experiences shared by WS members.

WS has grown into a large, international organization.  Code must now be protected in order to keep the website and membership information safe.  WS has grown, but it is still working to maintain its mission: “To provide the technology and platform for the sharing of safe, reciprocal hospitality among touring bicyclists and hosts who support them worldwide”

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
"Code must now be protected

"Code must now be protected in order to keep the website and membership information safe."

Did WS pay for this advice?

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
"Code must now be protected

With due respect, this sentence is nonsense. I'm the archive scientist for a major NASA astronomy instrument: we use and contribute substantial quantities of public code. We benefit from the openness, and do not fear it.

There is the old phrase "with many eyes, all bugs are shallow" -- it's a matter of culture. Yes, certain classes of vulnerabilities can be discovered more easily with more eyes, but those eyes can be just as easily those *contributing* (including security contributions) as those intent on harm. And with a closed codebase, there is at once an imposed division between insiders and outsiders.

The Linux kernel, as just one of many examples, is deployed to hundreds of millions of machines worldwide, and is developed in the open.

I look with substantial misgivings at a board and executive leadership that does not exploit every opportunity to build a broad community invested in the tools, the leadership, and the spirit necessary to realize their stated mission, and to eliminate the boundaries that impede that process wherever possible.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Of course it is nonsense. I

Of course it is nonsense. I just wish to know if it's nonsense that Ken thought would placate the community or if it's nonsense that was dispensed to the board by the very people they contracted to code the site.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
AdditionallyWarmshowers most

AdditionallyWarmshowers most likely runs on an open source operating system using a open source web server and a open source environment to run server side code. All this doesn't make Warmshowers less but more secure.

I decided some time ago that I wouldn't donate again until the code of the new website is published on GitHub and this statement of a board member confirms that I was right to do so.

I wish Trustroots wasn't invite only so that those of us who don't agree with how WS is run these days could all move over. These days I still get more requests on WS than on Trustroots. I still hope for a major shift in the future.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
"WS has grown into a large,

Commercial doesn't mean non-free.

"WS has grown into a large, international organization."

Great.

"Code must now be protected in order to keep the website and membership information safe."

Non-sequitur. What you are arguing is security through obscurity.
The argument is indistinguishable from thinly veiled trickery, with no basis in reality. I am hoping you are mislead, but misleading others is where that has to end.

" WS has grown, but it is still working to maintain its mission: “To provide the technology and platform for the sharing of safe, reciprocal hospitality among touring bicyclists and hosts who support them worldwide”

It was at-least open, now it is non-free, seeing as it is closed source. It would be great if it was free (libre) software, like all the projects it relies on… https://github.com/warmshowers/Warmshowers.org/blob/develop/docroot/COPYRIGHT.txt

If it isn't fine to use libre software, and you are, why not undo the hypocrisy and license what you provide atop it freely?

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
WS and centralizing control

Yes, many disturbing developments seem to have taken place in the last few years. What is a "community" held in the iron fist of an unaccountable administration?

I was extremely disturbed to read in the call for potential board members to put themselves forward. Of course, such positions are not elected by the community, but chosen by the current -- unaccountable -- board. And this poison pill was included: "All Board members are required annually to sign agreements concerning confidentiality, and the reading of educational material."

Consider what this implies as to who such members are actually accountable to. Having served on several non-profit boards and having created one myself, this is a new one for me, though perhaps it is the "new norm."

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Public Code

I agree with you. No one seem to notice that WS is slowly shifting towards corporate. I have to say it, WS Management keeps saying run by a board of volunteer. Yes, i understand that volunteer too needs allowances.  The way i figure it, it seems like 5 person are all powerful to veto members. I agree that position should be filled with merit and qualification but now, we have gone commercial. I agree the need for stipends to be paid to volunteer. Its all fun and game but the more i scrutinise this, its like an MLM scam. i have been on WS for like 3 years and new guys coming in like "gimme me money" "listen to me" "sorry bro, you cant do this you cant do that". The reason why i didnt quit WS because i still have faith in the system. Not in the people running it. I can relate if some people who cycle half way across the world and suddenly affected by malaria. I dragged myself out for emergency to help fellow cyclist in the middle of the jungle. do you know where Tambunan is unless you Google it? thats why i am here.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Now Accepting Applications for Board of Directors

They sent me an e-mail with this title ^above^. Of course I applied immediately, to make WarmShowers free as it's supposed to be. What is unclear to me is who is selecting. I would like to see the list of applicants, and users would be able to vote amongst us.

Making it proprietary for "security" was the greatest non-sense ever heard. I'm wondering if the current BoD is avoiding wikipedia for the same reason.

Meanwhile, I'm happy to see that i'm not anymore muted from forums (my "reply" button was removed for a while).

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Application For Board of Director e.g.

Hey, you received that email as well? i do not know how this work. If i apply, will that mean i represent the whole Oceania? or the Far East? Yes, my reply is hasty./ As yours, i felt like i have been shadow ban, my reply button is missing for a few hours,

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
I just hope that things will change for the good.

Once I read that message, it was already too late to apply: too many volunteers applied already. Great of course so many volunteers, I do not necessarily need to be there. I just hope that things will change for the good. As has been said on this topic before, but also on other occasions like in facebook posts, it has been pretty dramatic the past few years. So called improvements were no improvements. Luckily the community is still alive with all those great people and that is the only thing that counts. It would have been great though if that damn website would have been really improved, but the nightmare kind of continues. Luckily I'm still able to find my way and for that thankful.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
not selected

I received an answer that "Your application was not selected, however, we would like to encourage you to consider applying again in the future."
No explanation why, but it's easy to guess... how would they select for BoD somebody who disagrees with their practices?

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
not selected

There is, of course, no little hypocrisy in an organization that purports to promote the widest sharing of hospitality among touring cyclists, constantly solicits money towards that claimed end, and yet self-selects its governance in private and in secret.

The latest IRS form 990, for 2016, shows $99,659.33 contributions received, $15,235.20 compensation for executive director Seth Portner, and an excess of $56,770.65 above expenses, leading to a net assets of $92.891.44 at the end of the year.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
A brief rundown on some of

A brief rundown on some of what has happened since WS introduced member subscriptions/donations:
- There have been several changes of personnel amongst the ranks of the WS leadership under irregular circumstances which were not reported to the membership (not an oversight but deliberate policy as reported to me by a former chair of the board).
- An Executive Director used $300 of member donations to attend a commercial bike expo in Las Vegas, how his presence at such an event benefited the WS community in any way is still a mystery [ https://www.warmshowers.org/node/222894 ]
- WS code is no longer open source. It was outsourced to private contractors without advising or consulting the membership. The details of the license are still not known to the community and numerous questions regarding the handling of future upgrades/improvements/debugging remain unanswered [ https://www.warmshowers.org/node/237979 ]
- Meanwhile numerous bugs and layout problems which sprang up during the half baked 2015 Drupal upgrade still plague the site years later (the email system, forum navigation, forum searches, feedback formatting... and many more)
- Official development of the mobile apps has been abandoned pending further 'discussion'.
- Board participation on the WS forums has reduced to almost zero.

And what did we get in return for adding ~$100,000 annually to WS coffers?
- A new site theme that is far less intuitive and functional than the previous one.
- An ill thought out and ultimately aborted attempt at implementing official hosting requests. [ https://www.warmshowers.org/node/238358 ]
- The oft-requested search filtering is implemented and does not include any metric allowing members to filter out inactive, unresponsive hosts (responsiveness, last login, feedback, time as member) the very problem it was allegedly there to solve despite these metrics being repeatedly requested by members over the years. [ https://www.warmshowers.org/node/228455 ]

I'd like to know the opinions of the users who joined in with WS admin & board members in launching personal attacks against myself and the 2 or 3 other members who raised concerns about the proposed funding model and the belligerent way it was being pushed through several years ago. What's your take now on the progress of the site since the implementation of the donor system?

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Filter

The inability of not being able to filter out inactive members is absurd. I’d like to see all members who have been inactive more then a year totally purged. This inflation of membership doesn’t serve anyone well. I’ve been an active member for years. When I tour I’ve rarely heard back from those claiming to be hosts. As to people who join just to get a place when they go out on their once in life tour then never host well... screw you folks.  

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Purging inactive members

Purging inactive members annually has been standard practice here for years, without addressing the problem at the source this will only ever be a band aid solution.

OK, so here we go WS, one more time with feeling:

Here are the reasons I (and evidently every other online hospex site I know of) see it as counterproductive to sign up new members as available to host by default:

1) Out of the three broad groups of people signing up (those signing up to host, those signing up to be hosted on a trip, and those signing up to check out the site at a later date) the group most invested will be those signing up to host (they are going to have people in their house after all). Instead of trusting the most invested, conscientious new members to change their hosting status you are leaving it to people who often just want to quickly register themselves with the least effort possible because they are on the road at the time or just heard about the site and want to quickly sign up for later reference - these people will all go through to show up as hosts, not only that but they will go to the top of list searches for hosts as they are sorted by distance from city centre (no matter how many new fields you include in profiles, the path of least resistance at sign up still produces a member available to host and listed at 0 km from their city centre).

Just about any sorting mechanism (even entirely random) would be better than what we currently have for list searches. What I think would be best (beyond a very basic option to sort by total requests/response rate/time as member/last login/feedback), is the top results of the search being reserved for a randomly sorted list of members that fall within a certain number of set criteria (response rate >50% or <3 requests, last login <1 month ...) followed by the remainder of the members sorted by last login. This would promote (and incentivise) responsive members but without having the same names in the top 2 or 3 spots getting all the requests and also allow new members to have a chance at receiving requests.

2) WS is wasting incredible amounts of time manually vetting profiles - to what end? If members were marked as unavailable by default most profiles that don't pass the sniff test or whatever aren't going to go on to clog host searches. Any other unacceptable member behaviour can be trusted to be reported by members themselves. This would free up time to actually respond to the bug reports, suggestions and queries on the forum for example (amongst many other pressing tasks).

As has been mentioned before a big icon with a drop down menu to change host status (green for available, red for unavailable) in the header of every page will be a constant and visible reminder for any member about their availability, you could additionally send pop up reminders to new members on first sign in if they signed up marked as unavailable just to make sure they understand what that means and how to change it. You have no problem sending pop ups asking for donations so it shouldn't be a herculean task.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Hosting and community changing

I have been a member for over 12 years. I have been hosted a small amount. I host a lot of cyclist coming throught the B.C Vancouver area. I noticed most of the cyclist become members just before they are to venture out oun thier journey. Do they host when they arrive home???? Or do they quit the Warmshowers Community? In the past few years we have made 5o plus requests in different countries ( Netherlands, Germany, France etc) we have recieved 1 or 2 replys. I do not see a reciprical action being taken by the community. I am constantly being asked to donate to the Webiste, I feed and house guests,,,, many guests during the year for free,,, HMMMM were is the pay back for us??? If  the cyclis just want to be hosted without hosting MAYBE they should be asked to keep the website and it's employees funded????? NOT those of  us that are only hosting.... Just a thought Christa 

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
no worries

Noob here. 66 years old. I signed up late last year, paid my $10 donation, hosted, and am about to set off on my first tour. I suffered no hardship in hosting a traveler for 24 hours. I reaped much, much more than I sowed.  It seems, if you are suffering hardships by hosting, perhaps you might want to change your hosting style, rather than lay blame on the unknown freeloaders you perceive out there. It being my first, I might be a bit ahead of the game. Of the three hosts I contacted, two have replied, and are awaiting my arrival.

Organizations grow, in spite of their founders. It happens, and the original, down home operating style usually can't survive the change. As it is and always has been.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Account desactivated without notice

Hi there!

Nico beatnick reported that his profile has been desactivated without notice.

If you click on his name above, you will be redirected to his profile page, but instead of his profile, you will see "Access Denied": https://www.warmshowers.org/users/beatnickgr

He reported the issue on Bewelcome forum here: https://www.bewelcome.org/groups/20/forum/s19632

If you don't have a BW account, here is his message:

Trying to reply a message of a touring cyclists, i found out that my account active since 2012 had been deactivated. I received no email warning me.

Any other victims?

My last action was to post in the forum that i hadn't been selected for BoD. This situation reminds me so much of CensorShip on CS...

WS board, any explaination?

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
I too think it is essential

I too think it is essential that the board of directors explain themselves here. I am very uncomfortable with what it implies about relations between the community and the board if this is the way of "resolving" disagreements or dissident perspectives.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Paul Harper has reported that

Paul Harper has reported that he has been blocked from posting on the forum. When he views the forum, no Reply button is shown to him. It is really worrying to see that the WarmShowers leadership has banned someone who has always been quite polite in his posts. You would think that in a member-driven organization, people who are so passionate about the development of the community and the website, who are concerned about stagnation and secrecy, would be seen as an asset, not a problem.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
This is very troubling. Ken

This is very troubling. Ken Francis, I urge you to explain the board perspective on this. Even better, I urge you to take back to the board the extremely troubling conclusions the community must draw from this action if it is not simply an isolated act of an individual somehow thinking they were acting in the interest of all.

And if indeed that is the case, Paul Harper's effective block must be removed immediately.

Needless to say, I remain very disturbed at the deletion of Nico Beatnik's profile as well.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
That is infuriating.

That is infuriating.
I was thrown out of the Facebook group, for being "negative" or something like that. And was also threatened that my access to this forum (and WS in general) could be revoked. Since then, I have engaged less. Complaints about how this website works have no effect anyway.
Randy could be a bit grumpy sometimes, but I liked him. Now we have the more polished corporate types. It is not an improvement.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
I find it really troubling

I find it really troubling that someone who appeared to be a reasonable person to me and who actually agreed to host me at some point gets blocked from WarmShowers.

Was he doing more than just asking some annoying questions? @JackTurner

 

PS: Here's the conversation that Nico posted on BeWelcome:

_Hello,_
_When trying to log in, it returns "The username beatnick has not been
activated or is blocked"._
_Restoring the password doesn't work either._
_Could you please help me log in?_
_Thanks,_
_Nico_

 

Their answer :

_Ws is a hospitality site for touring bicyclists.  It is NOT a site for
you to complain how we develope and maintain it.  We are not a public
company and we can choose how we do business without your input.  You
account was blocked by the Board and will remain blocked._
_Jack Turner_
_Help Desk Manager_

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
I honestly like the direction

I honestly like the direction this platform is taking less and less. I set my donation level to 0 a long time ago, mainly out of protest against making WS a proprietary platform. The only way we can protest against this is for everyone who shares our opinion to set their donation level to 0 too. If enough people do this the board might reconsider. If not, we're apparently a minority and WS might not be the platform for us. In this case we could follow Nico to BeWelcome.

Beni

WS Üyesi Suldn1956 kullanıcısının resmi
BeatNick is an active host

BeatNick is an active host since 2009, on several HospEx (Hospitality Exchange) platforms.

In 2011 CouchSurfing was sold, and thousands of us reacted and converted our profile to "sold".
From his CouchSurfing account BeatNick was promoting the FOSS (Free and Open Source Software) WarmShowers, BeWelcome and later Trustroots (which appeared in Dec'15).

BeatNick was deleted from CouchSurfing because of his will to keep on hosting people despite their hostile (proprietary) software and came back 40 times with the same profile (from a txt file).

In 2017 WarmShowers goes proprietary and BeatNick did what he knew best : From his profile he begged WS to disclose their code, kept on promoting the 2 FOSS HospEx that are left, while warning that if his profile would get deleted, he would come back anyway.

He saw some of his forum posts deleted, and was restricted from forum replies for a while. Then got invited to apply for BoD, which he happily did, but was declined with no specific reason, encouraging BeatNick to try again in the future.
Few months later WS deleted the profile and says they "can do business without our input"
WarmShowers MUST decide if they want our input or not, it cannot be both!!!

BeatNick has hosted up to date more than 675 people of which ~40 cyclists, with 122 comments on BeWelcome and 57 contacts on Trustroots (look for the same username) and will keep on hosting under different names on WarmShowers and CouchSurfing (had 16 vouches before they go obsolete).

Now he urges every WarmShower host who cares a bit about their privacy and freedom of speach, to move to both of the above cyclists-friendly platforms and join the cyclists group and cyclists tribe respectively, until WarmShowers opens their new source code and let the public contribute.

Let the BoD take this warning into consideration : if you delete every pirate with hacker ethics, you will soon be left with only boring hosts on your platform.

Sully Dean.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Greetings from Mexico (I have an awesome WS host)!

When I joined Warmsphowers in 2013 membership was about 30,000.  The organization was managed by a few volunteers and ran as a “do-acracy” (this meant that volunteers helped out when and where they pleased and had very little accountability in doing so). 

Membership has exploded in the last six years and the threat of malware and malicious behavior has also increased.  The increased need to protect and manage our community and the ongoing means to do so have come with new expenses.  

During my tenure on the Board I have pushed for more organization and accountability.  The governing board has developed procedures, policies, and committees to make this organization more accountable, viable, and safe for its members. Issues are no longer handled randomly. Policies are followed and committees take accountability.  We are continuing to refine our policies as new technical and global issues arise.  Change happens.

Warmshowers is still governed and mostly run by volunteers from the community.  Community input and effort is greatly needed.  We are hoping to soon create regional committees to address import issues. New volunteers are welcomed and greatly needed. 

I know that I have been an active voice for leadership in these forums. For my final year of service to this Board, I am handing the “do-ocratic” elements of my role over to committees and over-all team.  Future forum posts from “Ken Francis” will be from the perspective of cyclist or host.  My voice from the perspective of Administration will be shared with others and under the guise of a Team Warmshowers.

There are two sides to every story. Please know that the situations mentioned in this thread were handled according to established policy and accountability of governance.  Our main focus is to provide a safe platform for the exchange of free hospitality to touring cyclist and those who support them.  All decisions have been made with this in mind.

 

Ken Francis, WS

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Greetings from Mexico (I have an awesome WS host)!

When I joined Warmsphowers in 2013 membership was about 30,000.  The organization was managed by a few volunteers and ran as a “do-acracy” (this meant that volunteers helped out when and where they pleased and had very little accountability in doing so). 

Membership has exploded in the last six years and the threat of malware and malicious behavior has also increased.  The increased need to protect and manage our community and the ongoing means to do so have come with new expenses.  

During my tenure on the Board I have pushed for more organization and accountability.  The governing board has developed procedures, policies, and committees to make this organization more accountable, viable, and safe for its members. Issues are no longer handled randomly. Policies are followed and committees take accountability.  We are continuing to refine our policies as new technical and global issues arise.  Change happens.

Warmshowers is still governed and mostly run by volunteers from the community.  Community input and effort is greatly needed.  We are hoping to soon create regional committees to address import issues. New volunteers are welcomed and greatly needed. 

I know that I have been an active voice for leadership in these forums. For my final year of service to this Board, I am handing the “do-ocratic” elements of my role over to committees and over-all team.  Future forum posts from “Ken Francis” will be from the perspective of cyclist or host.  My voice from the perspective of Administration will be shared with others and under the guise of a Team Warmshowers.

There are two sides to every story. Please know that the situations mentioned in this thread were handled according to established policy and accountability of governance.  Our main focus is to provide a safe platform for the exchange of free hospitality to touring cyclist and those who support them.  All decisions have been made with this in mind.

 

Ken Francis, WS

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Ken, I don't want to comment

Ken, I don't want to comment about Nico, since I know he has been a problematic personality across multiple hospex communities (but I certainly do not deny his incredible contribution to hosting, which dwarfs pretty much all of us, perhaps even all of us combined).

But with regard to Peter or Paul, when you write "the situations mentioned in this thread were handled according to established policy and accountability of governance", all the membership can assume is that you now have an "established policy" that no posts critical of the site’s direction can be made.

This, along with Jack Turner’s appallingly aggressive response to Nico, feels awfully inappropriate for an organization that claims to be member-led. WarmShowers’ board is drawn from the membership and occasionally the board members change. That means that if certain members feel unsatisfied with the direction of the site, they must be able to use this forum (or the Facebook group) and voice their disappointment, so that members wishing to overturn those policies might be represented by a future board.

Therefore, these recent decisions put the lie to WS’s claim to be open and member-led. And when that censorship and lack of openness is combined with the raising of tens of thousands of dollars, and no visible progress being made to this creaky old website, that will leave informed members very uneasy. All the analogues to the WS board’s current behaviour that I can think of, were eventually revealed to involve corruption and misuse of funds. Is that the impression you all want to give?

Finally, let me mention that in the last week or so, I have received three e-mails off site from longtime WS members who read this thread and now ask me, “Chris, what do you think, is it now time to set up a competing bicycle-touring hospitality-exchange website"? The level of discontent is now rising to the point that someone is surely going to do this soon. If you really care about furthering host-guest interactions, and not just raising money, then that prospect should worry you greatly: two competing sites would IMHO only fragment the community and perhaps result in less stays happening.

WS Üyesi WS Üyesi kullanıcısının resmi
Christopher just said it all...

Christopher just said it all...

Topic locked